Outside Influences hurting chances at peace

[JohnnyCanuck]

here is my take on this issue:

Personally, I would like to see peace in the region. Ironically, so do most Israeli Jews and Palestinians. The problem lies with the influence of people who live outside this region.

There is a misconception that many people who have negative views of Jewish people hold. That misconception is Israel controls American foreign policy. IMO, it is the other way around. It cannot be argued that the pro-Israel lobby in Washington is very powerful, and gives billions to the state of Israel each year.

This lobby consists of mainly influential Jews and right-wing Christians, who fear the Muslims controlling the Old City in Jerusalem, and forbidding access to sacred Christian sites. The Jewish population in the US continues to dwindle due to inter-marriage, assimilation, and a low birth rate. The Right-Wing Christians seem to have become more influential in regards to American foreign policy in recent years.

On the other side of the spectrum, the neighboring Arab states, who have an intense hatred on Israel and America, have put pressure on the Palestinians to "drive the Jews into the say." Even though technically, groups like Hezbollah, Al Queda, etc. do not run any country, they have overwhelming public support in some Islamic countries.

So I believe the true victims of the turmoil in the Holy Land are the Israeli and Palestinian civilians. The Israeli government has committed economic terrorism on Palestinians for years by not granting them statehood, building a wall of segregation, and installing numerous checkpoints which make it nearly impossible for the average Palestinian to make ends meet, and feed their families.

Some Palestinians have retaliated by joining radical Islamic groups such as Hamas, and targeting civilian areas of Israel, and strapping bombs on themselves to inflict the maximum amount of casualties, and instill fear in the general Israeli population.

There is no easy answer to how the region will achieve peace. However, I believe that if outside influences are reduced, and the EU and UN had the power to go into the region and force the two ethnic groups to co-operate, it would go a long way towards achieving peace.

However, as we know, the USA has vetoed just about every UN resolution condemning Israel. When the USA has less vetoing powers, and the EU has greater influence in the region, only then will we see things change. This is my perception on the conflict in the Middle East.

[ellenr]

Hello,
I agree with you re the influence of the pro-Israel lobby, and I think that the influence of the Christian right-wing on American foreign and domestic policy is much under-rated. [See the book, The Family].

I disagree that most Arabs or Arab countries want to "drive the Jews into the sea". I'm sure some individuals do, but this is not a matter of policy. Most Arab countries do regard the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians as a huge wrong.
As do all decent justice-loving people.

I suggest you do some reading and educate yourself about the situation.
I don't mean to sound patronizing or snarky.
Just that it is not as simple as you put it.
Somewhere on this forum there is a thread devoted to reading about the issues, and there are many many excellent books which are illuminating.

Most of us (esp in the US) grow up with a really inadequate grasp of the situation. I know I did.

regards,
ellen

[Douglas Carpenter]

The Arab Peace Plan - unanimously supported by the entire Arab League and endorsed by the PLO (This is the same position unanimously endorsed by the 57 member nation states of the The Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) - link: http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/worl ... sp?gid=244

http://www.al-bab.com/Arab/docs/league/peace02.htm

Official translation of the full text of a Saudi-inspired peace plan adopted by the Arab summit in Beirut, 2002.

The Arab Peace Initiative

The Council of Arab States at the Summit Level at its 14th Ordinary Session,

Reaffirming the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo Extra-Ordinary Arab Summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab countries, to be achieved in accordance with international legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli government,

Having listened to the statement made by his royal highness Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, crown prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in which his highness presented his initiative calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land-for-peace principle, and Israel's acceptance of an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel,

Emanating from the conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties, the council:

1. Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well.

2. Further calls upon Israel to affirm:

I- Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the June 4, 1967 lines as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon.

II- Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with U.N. General Assembly Resolution 194.

III- The acceptance of the establishment of a sovereign independent Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

3. Consequently, the Arab countries affirm the following:

I- Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region.

II- Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.

4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries.

5. Calls upon the government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighbourliness and provide future generations with security, stability and prosperity.

6. Invites the international community and all countries and organisations to support this initiative.

7. Requests the chairman of the summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the secretary general of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim states and the European Union.

.

[Douglas Carpenter]

Avi Shlaim

Avi Shlaim is perhaps the world's leading academic authority on Israeli/Arab relations and author of the premier defining book on the subject:

The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World By Avi Shlaim

link:

http://astore.amazon.com/tikunolam-20/detail/0393321126

Avi Shlaim was born in Baghdad in 1945, grew up in Israel, and studied at Cambridge and the London School of Economics. He is a Fellow of St. Anthony’s College and a Professor of International Relations at the University of Oxford. He was elected a Fellow of the British Academy in 2006. His books include Collusion Across the Jordan: King Abdullah, the Zionist Movement, and the Partition of Palestine, The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World, and War and Peace in the Middle East: A Concise History. He lives in Berlin.
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/It%20Ca ... 0Done.html

Professor Shlaim has written a new book which I have just ordered, but have not yet read. Israel and Palestine: Reappraisals, Revisions, Refutations

Amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1844673669?Sub ... 1844673669

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[Mosheh]

here is my take on this issue:
There is no easy answer to how the region will achieve peace. However, I believe that if outside influences are reduced, and the EU and UN had the power to go into the region and force the two ethnic groups to co-operate, it would go a long way towards achieving peace.

However, as we know, the USA has vetoed just about every UN resolution condemning Israel. When the USA has less vetoing powers, and the EU has greater influence in the region, only then will we see things change. This is my perception on the conflict in the Middle East.

How can you reduce outside influences.... by sending in UN troops???

Isnt that the opposite of reducing outside influence?

[Violet Crumble]

here is my take on this issue:
There is no easy answer to how the region will achieve peace. However, I believe that if outside influences are reduced, and the EU and UN had the power to go into the region and force the two ethnic groups to co-operate, it would go a long way towards achieving peace.

However, as we know, the USA has vetoed just about every UN resolution condemning Israel. When the USA has less vetoing powers, and the EU has greater influence in the region, only then will we see things change. This is my perception on the conflict in the Middle East.

How can you reduce outside influences.... by sending in UN troops???

Isnt that the opposite of reducing outside influence?

Johnny can correct me if I'm wrong, but I read what he said as 'outside influences' being the US and other Arab states....

[begbie]

here is my take on this issue:

There is no easy answer to how the region will achieve peace. However, I believe that if outside influences are reduced, and the EU and UN had the power to go into the region and force the two ethnic groups to co-operate, it would go a long way towards achieving peace.

I don't think you can 'force two groups to cooperate', although if the EU barged in, they probably join forces to kick the EU's arse ...before resuming their old hostilities.